Skype Journal: Yahoo 360 Fails on Presence
April 5, 2005 04:14 PMWhy does the SkypeAPI provide the potential solution that Yahoo 360 and others are unable to match. I've been in Yahoo 360. (Learn more about Yahoo 360 here here and here). I even approved one buddy, so I've not made it a big test case. I remain convinced that the social networks are broken until they act and operate in real time. While surveying some of my friends 360 profiles, Judith Meskill and Stowe Boyd trying to work out if Yahoo's presence indicator does more than online or offline, I came across Stowe's blog post there.
So, why did they do such a bad job integrating with Messenger? I really want a real-time social network, with blogging, photo sharing (a la Hello), music sharing (a la last.fm), and instant messaging. They have all the pieces. But what they need is to map my friends into the messenger buddy list. Everything should work in the obvious way, but when I click on a Messenger online icon it just brings up Messenger, not an IM session with the friend I just clicked on. And the 360 friend might not be on my buddylist, although they are an approved 360 friend. Ugh. Yahoo 360? - Ambivalence
Stowe welcome to an ass-backward world. Rather than enabling you to create a dynamic social network Yahoo 360 has created a static network from the top down which fails the real-time tests. That's the problem when the solution is a complex set of connections centrally controlled. It was ok as long as all the networks continued to operate in an asynchronous world. By contrast creating a world of networking that bubbles up from the participants, is dynamic and always changing. For me to share my dynamic network with you in real time I must be able to share the status of my buddies. When sharing their status along with mine I also need to adapt to any rules for sharing they may have with me.
Since Skype arrived I've been suggesting to social network operators that they include it in their capabilities. A few have in a limited way, Ecademy, Skype Forums etc. However these examples fail to illustrate the real opportunity. Social Networks need to rethink the type of information they need to go to "real-time" and then having identified the source and capability they need to enable you and me to bring that information to our pages. From this perspective TypePad may provide a better social networking solution when compared to Yahoo 360 or even the historical players.
What could a social neworking service become if it had the following information?
All this information and more is available from the SkypeAPI. We've begun with different developers to test and evaluate how we can put this new level of presence information to work. Let's step back for a few moments and review first how thinking about Skype presence has evolved. When Skype first launched the "presence" indicator online/away/etc. it was just part of the program. The Skype development team didn't set out with a plan for presence. In fact it was the team behind Qzoxy that brought "presence" to their attention. This solution was really first generation.
First Generation: (BuddyList Connection)
These solutions focused on harnessing the Skype client rather than the SkypeAPI. While small solutions may still evolve from these tests, for the most part they were not scalable as they tried to centralize data by using a Skype client.
The first "presence" solution announced last year enabled a "trusted agent" that you added to your buddy list to have access to your current online status. That agent could then broadcast that information on their website or enable you to share it off your own by adding a little code. It was a neat first step. The most talked about example is Jyve. While Jyve's initial solution (another is in the works) demonstrated what could be done, its major flaw was economic scalable. Jyve and others were using a modified Skype client to capture the presence information. Unfortunately, once Skype gets a large number of contacts on a buddylist the presence information becomes less reliable.
Note the SMS solution provided by Connectotel follows a similar "client" approach, however isn't limited by "presence" accuracy. Where the Connectotel model may have difficulties is in automating the authorization process so a paid Skype to SMS solution can be executed. It too was an effective beta demo.
Both of these solutions provide some protection for the user. If you no longer wanted to share your presence information or participate in the SMS service you simply removed them from your buddylist. It's no different than normal culling that is often done by individuals with large buddylists to keep them under control. Depending on whether the solution "authorized" you... you could also see when it was online and working.
With the release of the SkypeAPI presence (and much more) information became available for developers. Skype too has recognized the potential and is likely to have people working on it. In the end users won't want to run multiple presence plug-ins. A standard will have to win that lets them manage presence from their perspective. Which brings us to the second geneation approach now emerging.
Second Generation: Personal Presence Server:
Release of the SkypeAPI created the opportunity for a different approach, one that more appropriately reflects the P2P roots of Skype and importantly will require even more attention from users. All the information in the questions earlier in the post are easily answered by information shared through the SkypeAPI. Thus you can create a plug-in that captures just one item of information or potentially all of it. From a Skyper's point of view the information in the API is personal, from a business point of view the same infomation is viewed as proprietary (who did we call, these are our sales contacts etc.) and businesses invest many dollars in centralised email contact lists etc.
This new generation approach puts the responsibilty and use of the SkypeAPI into the users hands. At the Skype Journal we believe this was always the intention. With this information at our disposal it is up to Skypers to determine how to share, use and apply it. Personal presence servers will be announced by various developers over the next three months. Presence Servers on the desktop will enable you to control how you project your presence. Don't worry the early iterations will only share your presence, however future versions will also share the presence of your friends and with their blessing. If you don't believe it possible just look again at Yahoo 360. The status for each friend one a profile is visible.
Now the item that will make a Skype execution really interesting is the dynamic nature of the presence server may mean that my presence is shared by some of my buddies at certain times and by others differently. Skype Presence can be updated instantaneously each time a page is refreshed or opened. Thus a personal friend may end up sharing my presence data differently to a business colleague. Some will say this is a problem. I'm not sure it is. The context is always presented in terms of the individuals page for which he currently has access or knowledge of... the following buddies.
So, as you receive status updates for your buddies, you have the power to share that status information with others depending on the agreement you have with them. This significantly differentiates the opportunities for Skype from other messenger services. We've seen the power of social networking services and the interest in them.
So I'll state it again. It's possible to imagine a world in which along with my presence when online I share a list of my buddies who are currently also online. You visit with me and my directory and you can see who I have at my fingertips to connect and put you in touch with right now. That simple proposition provides more promise than all the social networks have todate. It also materially changes the relationship that you have with your buddies.
This is potentially revolutionary. It makes Skype really different, and you don't think Yahoo is going to turn over "presence" to third party developers soon do you? It's also where the rules between individuals need working out. If I add you to my buddylist, the traditional expectation is that "share" is for you only, information that you have and retain on your desktop. However with Skype when you share your presence with a buddy it automatically becomes part of the buddies "activity" log. You can easily view this behavior using a plug-in tool like Skype Tracer. Thus with a Skype Presence Server I could share my presence information on my blog page and concurrently share a list of my Buddies who are currently on line, or most popular for calls etc. It just depends on how the information is presented.
What we as developers may need from Skype.
In the future Skype may have to consider building in two levels of "Presence". Level One would represent authorization and addition of a buddy so presence is shared only between the two parties. While Level Two would add an additonal "Trusted Presence" that would authorize and provide your buddy access to your Skype presence information via the SkypeAPI. Going to Level two means I am comfortable sharing my presence anywhere my buddy decides to go and then augment his presence status information by sharing status for his buddies as well.
No problem right? There's still a problem. You are a gorgeous gal and your good friend is into the latest in matchmaking sites. He shares his profile on the site. His profile includes his buddies. Now it appears likely that the lady in this example would get more attention than they need or perhaps bargained for. Similarly, if one has children on their buddylist sharing my presence and theirs online in some cases could be illegal. The learning here is we currently have no way of controlling the presence information we make available to our buddies. We authorized them with the traditional IM understanding, when in fact we are potentially empowering and enabling our buddies to share our presence in many new ways. Now this is not necessarily bad. We share social capital all the time. If I meet someone new I may say.. Do you know so n so? or Let me introduce you to.... This is a variation, however less "nuanced" to context and timing for it is a static association unless withdrawn.
It is also important for developers that they understand this capability and build in solutions. While Skype could become more proactive, and put an additional step in the presence sharing process it may be more effective and viral to let the system run as it is for now. However Skype should only certify programs that enable and obey a set of guidelines or Presence rules. For example If my Presence Server was set up by me to share my presence infomation and that of my friends on my blog then as soon as I opened the account my presence server should ask me first whether I want to share the presence of any of my friends, Example I join a car club, many of my buddies own similar cars. It makes sense then potentially for me to share their presence information. However after I've ticked their names, the Presence Server must now text them and get a response back that provide approval. Similarly a text message from my buddy to me should be able to revolk it.
From where I stand all the who-ha over Yahoo 360 is a little premature. These things will work when they tie back into the application. Skype compared with the other powerhouse IM systems appears to be in the lead. If I've not said enough already take this same approach and incorporate it into mobiles and add in GPRS information. Now we are close to something really useful.
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Comments (3)
It's a FAQ. But it would be very nice if there was a chatto:// protocol to go with callto:// Or something like callto//:myName/chat I don't mind publishing clickable presence for an IM session. But I don't want even my contacts to start bombarding me with voice calls.
The trust issues you raise are important. Just because Joi Ito is in my contact list doesn't mean he's given me permission to publish his presence on a web site. Actually, for Joi it probably does.
Posted by: Julian Bond at April 5, 2005 11:59 PM
I agree...
Is there any buzz about www.telvita.com ? I heard they were trying to incorporate business social networks to their VoIP services. Their site doesn't tell much though.
Posted by: Uri L. at April 6, 2005 1:22 AM
Julian,
I think there are a couple of solutions to this. I agree a chatto: would be for many a preferred solution. The other would be direct to VM solution. I’m going to write some more on this shortly.
Actually sharing presence and the connection information are two different things. I could share presence with you so you buddies would know who you know that is currently online. However you would still be the gatekeeper. Ie it would need a conference call to get to me.. you may end up with lots of requests however in general I think it would create more value.
Posted by: Stuart Henshall at April 6, 2005 8:53 PM